Birth Bliss: Preparing for an Empowered Birth with Marie Berwald

Emily : 0:09

Hello and welcome to Spilling the Milk, the podcast where we share stories and advice related to breastfeeding to help moms know that they are not alone in their breastfeeding journey, and we are here to support them. My guest today is Marie Berwald. She has over 20 years of experience as a yoga instructor and childbirth educator. Marie is so passionate about preparing moms to have an empowered birth and she has developed a prenatal program to help women reconnect to their innate wisdom. In birthing. She weaves together breath work, biohacks, visualization, relaxation and other holistic tools, and Marie believes every woman deserves to feel empowered in her birthing experience. I had a lovely conversation with Marie and she has given us some great freebie resources that I will link in the show notes. Please enjoy our conversation.

Marie: 1:11

Hi, I'm Marie Burwald and I help nervous expecting women become calm, confident birthing moms, beautiful, yeah. So I like to I really focus on holistic tools because I think if you have the right tool set it will serve you, no matter how things unfold.

Emily: 1:33

And what do you mean by how things unfold?

Marie: 1:35

Well, and I'm going to talk about this more like I think it overlaps with breastfeeding. But when we talk about like pregnancy and birth, there are a lot of unknowns and that can be really hard to manage, like psychologically, and so I really focus on tools for wellness, and those can be physical tools, like some prenatal yoga movements, or they can be mental tools, like breathing exercises or visualization tools, and all of that is going to help, no matter what comes up during your pregnancy, because there's a lot of weird things that can happen during pregnancy there just is.

Emily: 2:12

Yeah, it seems like every mom you talk to has like a slightly different thing that you didn't even know was possible yet until you talked to her.

Marie: 2:18

Yes, you're like oh, that weird thing that can sometimes happen, oh yeah, Exactly.

Emily: 2:25

That's great. So you're teaching tools that are useful during pregnancy, during birth and far, far beyond.

Marie: 2:30

Yes, yeah, and that's like the sort of side bonus Like women come to me because they are struggling in their pregnancy but the tools that I teach them are going to serve them like long after. So I have like so many stories for moms that I'll run into at the grocery store and they'll be like oh, I was at the dentist the other day and he commented about how calm I was during this like canal route and I was like and she told me I was just using all those calming techniques that you taught me in prenatal class all of them and he was like you're so calm she's like it's not happening by accident.

Emily: 3:03

I love that was. My personal experience was I applied the hypnobirthing strategies that I learned to the dentist. That's one place I still use it consistently. I forgot about that.

Marie: 3:13

Yeah, yeah. That's the great thing, because I think that there's so many times during that motherhood journey that we can get stressed out and we can spiral into worry, like it's so easy as a new mom to just start spiraling, and so the tools that you build during pregnancy are going to serve you long after.

Emily: 3:33

Yep, so I guess what is your walk us through like? If someone works with you you know what are the some of the things that you're you're doing or if someone takes, you know, a class with you.

Marie: 3:43

Yeah, so I do an online prenatal yoga class. I also do. I kind of I do both. I do in-person stuff in my local area, so childbirth prep, which is hypnobirthing styled, and I have an online version of the course and I also teach it like in person for my local people and same thing with my prenatal yoga. So basically gives you lots of different tools. I also have a program for morning sickness that's holistically focused and has all those tools in it, but with a focus on easing morning sickness. Ooh, that's really useful.

Emily: 4:16

That's great, I guess. What are some things that have maybe surprised you? I guess, as you well I know, you've had to pivot. Mostly you were doing in person sort of pre-COVID. What has sort of surprised you about pivoting to now offering some of this online to new moms?

Marie: 4:34

Well, from a marketing point of view, it's like very different. So that was a whole pivot. And then also learning about how to keep people engaged when you know when they're coming to a class every Wednesday night for five weeks. That's very different than when you are choosing, like, an online class, where you show up when you want to show up, and there's beauty in that. There's, you know, there's that great flexibility and it can work for, you know, people who have, you know, schedules that don't allow them to attend like a weekly class.

Marie: 5:07

But one of the one of the things that was tricky for me to figure out was like how was I still going to make sure that there was a good level of engagement? And so, yeah, I put some things into place, kind of like gamified it a little bit, so that you know that it's a, that it's like you get these little shots of dopamine, actually, because I'm all about the hormones, yeah. So I really looked at how can I put these little shots of dopamine into the course so that it's motivating and it's exciting, just like a game, like when you play a video game. It's motivating, exciting to continue because you're getting these little shots of dopamine. It's motivating, exciting to continue because you're getting these little shots of dopamine. So so I added those little pieces into the course so that you could get that same motivation to keep going.

Emily: 5:52

So you got really excited when you start talking about hormones and you told us a little bit about dopamine, so tell us more about these hormones that have you so excited.

Marie: 6:05

So, yeah, so like, basically my philosophy is that we, if we can work with the hormones, it makes everything so much easier, and I think that's very true for birth and it's very true for postpartum and breastfeeding as well. And so there's like basically four happy hormones that we want to get really flowing through our body. So dopamine, that's like the reward hormone when you do something good. Endorphins these are our physical pain blockers. They give you that runner's high, that like feeling when you're doing something physical. They're wonderful for birth because they block pain. So that's like super powerful right. The more we can get those on our side, the higher the levels of those, the more comfortable we're going to be during labor. And then we've got serotonin, that makes us feel good.

Marie: 6:51

And then we've got oxytocin, and oxytocin for labor is the huge one because it is the love hormone, but it is also the hormone that literally causes the contractions, because it's the one that gets the muscle to contract. So it drives your labor, and when we get high levels of oxytocin it means that we have a better chance of labor happening smoothly, because we've like we're not going to get into that situation where they tell you that your labor isn't progressing enough or that the contractions aren't strong enough and that we have to augment with different kinds of drugs. That always makes things harder, whereas if we just get really high, stable levels of oxytocin the whole way through, not only does it give you these rose colored glasses because it's the love hormone, so it makes you feel emotionally good, but it's also going to mean that you have a nice effective surges or like contractions so that labor progresses well. So it's like a win-win. And then for afterwards, for breastfeeding, high levels of oxytocin are what actually caused the letdown, because it contracts the muscles that release the milk. So you need it afterwards as well, and I think people don't realize that that's something that you can actually practice. So, like, one of my absolute favorite oxytocin practices that I teach in my class is breast massage, and I know that can sometimes seem like a little bit strange and weird because, like, sometimes we have as a society a little bit of unease around, like this sexual nature of procreation like at birth because, like it's all the same hormones and but if when we practice like breast massage, like the way that I teach, it is like you do a little meditation and you send loving energy while you massage your breasts, I just encourage my students.

Marie: 8:48

I still do this, actually, every time I have a shower, when I put lotion on, I just put lotion on super intentionally and I do this little breast massage. It only takes me like two, three minutes but it, like it, really helps me feel like I'm taking care of myself and that's partly because I'm like breathing deep while I do it and I'm also like sending myself these positive affirmations yeah and the reason that I like it is that it, like it, intentionally releases those good hormones and for pregnancy it gets you, like, used to fondling your breasts and I know that sounds strange.

Marie: 9:24

No, but like the right person like yes, we'll get it because, like when you're breastfeeding, you have to manipulate your boobs quite a bit.

Emily: 9:33

Yes, yes.

Marie: 9:35

And it like if you're not used to doing that beforehand, it can feel like honestly a little weird.

Emily: 9:42

It can and like. For a lot of people, the first time you go to breastfeed is when you find out that, like you have flat nipples because you've never really paid attention to your nipples and now it's a thing and maybe you need a little intervention because your nipples are flat. So I'm all about, yeah, getting comfortable with your breasts. For me personally, with my third baby I had to get induced with Pitocin because they suspected infection and having had two you know unmedicated births before this, I was like kind of devastated. I definitely didn't want Pitocin, I didn't want to be induced.

Emily: 10:13

Prior to that, I remember a nurse, just like offhand comment, saying well, you should like stimulate your nipples and then maybe you'll go into labor spontaneously, and like she was right to an extent. But when a nurse just says it to you in a hospital, when you're like afraid and there's like no, so you're like are you raping nipples? People walking in and out of the room? You're like you want me to put like this is not, but she was right. So to avoid Pitocin. Hearing Pitocin, oxytocin? Oh, they're similar. Yeah, it's the synthetic version. To avoid the synthetic version, you are teaching people how to induce more of the natural version and start practicing that during pregnancy. So when you're in my situation and the stakes are a little bit higher, you have a practice where you can.

Marie: 11:02

Yes, exactly, yeah, and actually so. The breast massage I teach them to do like through the whole pregnancy, but then when they get really close to their due date, starting about 36, 37 weeks- then, we subtly shift that breast massage and the movements so that it becomes more antenatal hand expression.

Marie: 11:23

Oh, then that they can practice, and I actually I love that practice because it gets them again like and I'm like used to fondling their breasts. So if they need to do it in labor, they know exactly what to do. Right, then they might be able actually to collect a little colostrum before they go to the hospital, which is like I always call this. This is like your insurance, like policy. It is, it's a bonus. If something happens during labor, then you have some. You know, and I explained that, like the first, maybe like six times you do this, you might not get anything or you might get like a drop. I'm like that's okay Because it's also the value is in the, the getting used to like the process.

Marie: 12:04

And then if you need to hand express at the hospital, it's not like you're a deer in the headlights, you know exactly what to do, comfortable and familiar with the process, and then, if you do practice it over days, by the end you'll have like a little bit of colostrum and I just like I recommend they just store that in a little syringe, put it in the freezer and then, if after labor, like if something happens in the birth where you do need some recovery time and you're not able to nurse like right away after which happens in an ideal situation then the hospital you can bring those syringes to the hospital and the hospital would rather give your baby the colostrum that you've already collected versus, like the sugar water that they would have to administer otherwise to keep baby's blood sugar levels.

Emily: 12:54

Yeah, this is a really beautiful idea and I the idea of colostrum harvesting is new-ish to me, of course. When I heard it I was like, well, that makes sense and I and we don't want people to go overboard and think you're supposed to create a freezer stash of colostrum. No, that is not the norm.

Marie: 13:11

No, no, like, like, I, like I show them photos of, like the little syringe I'm like the syringe has like five mils in it. Like we're talking a tiny little amount, but like babies, when they're newborns their stomachs are like the size of an olive, like they are so small, so like they can't take much in at any one time dose anyways.

Emily: 13:32

So yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a small amount, exactly. So we do want to get that across because I think if you've never had a newborn and you're just visualizing, like a bottle of milk, it's ounces and ounces, but in those first hours, in those first days, their tiny little tummies really just need a couple of drops and that's all you're going to make. But I am, um, you got me so excited about this idea of the breast massage and the almost practicing hand expression ahead of time. Honestly, I've talked to people who breastfed for a while and still didn't know that hand expression was an option If new moms, like, are hating their pump or it's just not, and especially if they only need, like a bottle, you know, maybe, for someone else to feed, like, have you tried hand expression? Because, honestly, sometimes it's almost just as efficient, it's more comfortable, you have more control, um, and it feels closer to, like you know, baby feeding than a plastic vacuum suctioning, you know, milk out Exactly.

Emily: 14:31

I am a little curious about the prenatal yoga. So you talked about how you offer, like you know, mindset practices and then, with the yoga, my understanding is it can help get baby into a better position, which then, of course, would lead to an easier labor. So maybe talk a little bit like what makes something prenatal yoga versus like regular yoga, I guess.

Marie: 14:57

I think prenatal yoga is just everything is going to be designed for your changing body. So I used to practice ashtanga. I still love practicing ashtanga yoga, but when I got pregnant I was so fatigued and I just like couldn't do that practice anymore and so I joined like a prenatal yoga class and I was like I felt like I came home. I was like, oh no, this is the practice for me right now, yeah, anyway. So later I became a prenatal yoga instructor and one of the things that I love about it is that, first of all, it teaches women to follow their body's lead, and I think that's a really important principle.

Marie: 15:38

In birth, I think, so often we've been trained to just trust the expert. And medical teams have a lot of expertise, but their expertise is about, like, the medical side of things. Your expertise is about you personally as a person, and same intervention could play out differently for different people depending on their own that person and their likes, dislikes, body chemistry, mobility, like there's so many pieces. So like I'm really of the philosophy that, like the best medical care comes from, like this collaborative approach where you've got like the patient who has all this information about her and her body. Yeah, and then the medical team that has all the medical information and then, when we like, combine those two. That's where we get the best, um, the best health care. And so I think that when you're doing a practice like prenatal yoga, where you're constantly being encouraged to adapt the movement, so, like in my classes, I'm constantly telling the women like you could do this, this or this, you know, like showing variations, and I'm like it's okay that today you're doing, you know version A, and next week you do version B, because your energy levels, your center of gravity, it's all shifting all the time. Your mobility is shifting, and so you start to build that habit of listening to your body and that is so important.

Marie: 17:11

So I in my prenatal, in my, like in my hypnobirthing class, I always explain that the best position for labor is the one where you feel the best. The best position for birthing your baby physiologically is the one that you feel most comfortable in. So if you are in a semi-reclined position and it's hurting your tailbone, that's your body saying that this isn't great, this isn't allowing baby to come down that birth path because it's pushing on your tailbone, that's your body saying that this isn't great, this isn't allowing baby to come down that birth pass, because it's like pushing on the tailbone. You get into an all force position and suddenly it feels way better. Yeah, it's your body telling you it's easier for the baby to come out that way, yeah, and so, yeah, getting that practice of listening to your body. So that's one, and then the second is just movements that help to put baby into a better position.

Emily: 18:01

Yeah.

Marie: 18:01

So a lot of the like. It's all about the hips really. You know, like all the rocking movements, upright movements where we're using gravity. I love like I start every prenatal yoga class on an exercise ball, because the exercise ball, in terms of putting baby prenatally into a great position for birth, there's not much better than Well, there's two, there's sitting on the exercise ball and doing like circles or just wiggling around, bouncing on an exercise ball. All of that's going to put it baby into a really good position for birth. And then the tabletop or all fours position because that's going to help to keep the spine facing outward.

Emily: 18:45

Okay.

Marie: 18:45

Which is an easier position for birthing. You don't want the spot. You don't want your spine pressing like baby when baby's spine is pushing against your spine that makes things difficult. Um can result in what's called back labor, where you feel everything in your back instead of feeling it more forward in the belly so spent.

Marie: 19:06

It's like there's so many things with birth that we can influence but we can't control 100 and baby's positioning is very much that right. We can't actually 100 control exactly where the cord is. Very much that right. We can't actually 100% control exactly where the cord is or exactly how baby is positioned but, we definitely influence it through gravity and movement.

Marie: 19:25

So yeah, and actually can I just talk about like that overlap between, because I think that one of the things that I think doing birth prep can help with breastfeeding is on the side of like your mindset and like the relaxation, and so I wanted to kind of dig into those.

Emily: 19:44

Yeah, please do.

Marie: 19:45

Yeah, okay, so like. So the relaxation skills that you can build prenatally, they are going to serve you. We talked a little about this already Because then, like, if we already can know how to calm ourselves down and that seems like a simple thing, but it isn't always but when we have skills to calm ourselves down when we're in a stressful situation, that's going to serve us. Because for breastfeeding to work, it works best when there's a calm mama and a calm baby as, like, the foundation to start the latching process. But I think, in terms of the, the mindset, I think I always encourage all my women to walk this line where you're like intentional and you're prepared, but that at the same time, you're flexible and adaptable, but that at the same time, you're flexible and adaptable. And I think that's so key because we see, and like anyone who's listening to this is going to have, like encounter a woman on one or the other end of that spectrum, and I think it's actually easier to be at the ends of the spectrum than right in the middle. So what I mean by that is like you'll meet a woman who is like super flexible and adaptable for birth. Maybe she's like well, it could be a c section could be an epidural, it could be natural, I don't know. So like I'm okay with anything, so like they've got that piece of it being open to however it unfolds.

Marie: 21:08

But then often those women won't do any preparation, right, right, because they're like, well, I don't need it it.

Marie: 21:14

Or else you get the other side of the spectrum where they're like they've done a ton of preparation, which is awesome, but then they're like super invested in like their birth plan and it happening like this and then like this, and then they'll get super disappointed if things don't work out exactly the way they envisioned.

Marie: 21:33

And so I'm always trying to teach people to be like right in the middle, walk the line, which is more difficult, but so much more like rewarding and happy and like healthy. So if you've got your intention and you've got your preparation, so you've built up those skills. But then in the moment you're also like being open to responding as the journey unfolds, and that's something that will serve you in birth, but it's also something that will really serve you for for nursing, because it's like you want to do all the preparation so you can avoid having cracked nipples. But then, if the cracked nipples happen, you got to be flexible and adapt and respond to that and like change your plan a little, so how you're breastfeeding is going to change because of that circumstance, and that sort of thing happens in birth all the time too.

Emily: 22:27

Yeah.

Emily: 22:27

And I think it like you were describing people who have the plan and they just expect that we're going to stick to the plan. I think it makes sense, especially if you come from like a job where you're like the project manager or you know in the work world. We can have a timeline and a project plan and we can check off boxes and we can delegate things to other people and for the most part, things should go as planned because we've put all these things in place A brand new baby and a brand new skill of breastfeeding that you've never done before. If you're applying a corporate project plan to it, it's probably going to lead to disappointment and frustration and I think that's for me. That was one of the big things about new motherhood in general is like you are just keeping a baby alive for 24 hours. Like what did you do today? I just they pooped, I fed them, they slept. I think I slept. I don't know if I ate. I might've showered, I fed them Like it doesn't seem like-.

Marie: 23:24

My husband used to come home and my house would look like a bomb went off, like literally like I'd still be in my pajamas. The bomb went off and he'd walk in the house and I'd lift up our little baby girl and I'd be like I kept her alive today and he's like for the win.

Emily: 23:40

It's good that you were celebrating that and realizing that that is more than enough, like you've done it, I was like adjustment, adjustment yeah. Big adjustment? Oh, my goodness. No, I love that you've applied. You know. You've shown us how everything you do to prepare for birth you can continue to pay dividends. It helps you when you're breastfeeding, you're right Calm mom, calm baby. You know you co-regulate each other, which is like the beautiful, the beautiful thing, yeah, isn't that?

Marie: 24:10

like, yeah, you do co-regulate each other. It's because're so, you're so connected, like physiologically, like like there's yeah, and, and ideally that's the way we want moms and babes to both be and feel right. And just let me say that, like, some women get that like really connected feeling right after they give birth and some don't, and then they feel worried. So if it for anyone who's listening, if it happens that right after birth you don't feel connected, the easiest way to reset that is skin to skin. Skin to skin after birth is magic.

Marie: 24:45

And if you can't get it right after your baby's born, you do it as soon as you can. So like, let's say that there there needs to be a C-section and so there's going to be a delay. As soon as you guys come together, you get naked, like the naked actually matters. You get naked, baby gets naked, maybe just wearing a diaper, and they just sit on your skin and you just let that happen and the hormones will release and you will start to feel that connection with that little person. Yeah, and so, as early as possible, and then, as, often as feel that connection with that little person.

Emily: 25:17

Yeah, and so, right as early as possible, and then, as often as possible, even after you go home. Yes, because that's how like.

Emily: 25:22

That's the best, easiest way to initiate breastfeeding, yep, so and so, since you're going to be naked a lot, it's. That's why it's a good idea to maybe have a visitor policy that you discuss with your partner ahead of time, because for breastfeeding success you need to be topless like almost all the time, and you don't necessarily want people coming over. That it's going to make you uncomfortable because, guess what? Now we're tense and we're not calm and we're not relaxed and we can't feed our baby, or we're trying to like hide and feed the baby. Oh, totally.

Marie: 25:53

Yeah, and like actually that's another overlap between birth prep and like breastfeeding is the communication and advocacy piece. So, like one of the things that I teach my gals in my, or like my couples in the prenatal classes is that, like you need to practice advocacy, you need to practice like speaking up for yourself because you there's a good chance you're going to have to do that along the way through your pregnancy. There's a very good chance that you're going to have to do it in your birth and you're going to have to do that postpartum to make sure that you're getting the support that you need. And so giving you some advocacy skills and some negotiation skills I think is actually really important. And then I was going to say for, like my local hospital, this was a great story during.

Marie: 26:46

This was years ago with during H1N1, they limited visitors at the in the mom and baby unit and they noticed that their breastfeeding rates like super duper increased. And so then they had a sit down and were like why did our breastfeeding rates like increase so much? Why was it so much easier? And what they figured out was that moms were being basically too polite and not telling people to leave.

Marie: 27:16

So and I mean and it totally happened to me, my, when I was in the hospital with my first uh. The day after, my sister-in-law came to meet the baby, but she brought her new boyfriend, who I'd only met like a handful of times before, and that was fine, except that my daughter started getting hungry and I needed to like get totally naked in order to you know, like I had to be topless in order to figure out the breastfeeding with her, but I didn't want to do that in front of him and I didn't, you know, and I didn't want to tell him to leave.

Marie: 27:49

Yeah, and so I needed, and then and then, by the time that they left, my daughter was, like now, really hungry and upset. So then latching took, like was harder, and I ended up needing the nurse to help me, which I probably wouldn't have if I, you know, had fed her right away when she was giving me the initial cues.

Emily: 28:08

Yeah, right, your instinct was like she needs to feed now. Yeah, and you suppress the instinct for politeness for other people's comfort and it led to a harder experience.

Marie: 28:20

Yeah and so, yeah, so, like our local hospital, put in a rule that you just have, like one other person.

Emily: 28:27

Yeah, that is interesting. It's interesting that they have the data to show the impact, because I think, like you and I, anecdotally, we know from your story that that can have an effect, but that to have the data really backs it up and it's definitely something to maybe have a conversation about before, cause in the moment, yeah, I mean, everything's brand new and you're like making decisions on the fly, so yeah.

Emily: 28:53

Yeah, I know I can just picture the much more peaceful mom and baby ward. There's no extra people, it's just you and baby. You're not like. Oh, visitors are coming at three, so like maybe I should try to feed now before they get here.

Marie: 29:06

Yeah, and the other thing that they noticed was when they reduced the access to the moms, the moms napped more.

Emily: 29:13

Oh, oh man.

Marie: 29:15

And then and then people are like when you are well rested, you have more emotional resiliency. When you are well rested, you have more emotional resiliency. Yes, like just think of a toddler. As soon as a toddler gets tired, you know, like the smallest thing, and it's like and I feel like that's so true for us as adults, and especially like more so in pregnancy, and then that postpartum period. It's like when we're not well rested, it's harder, and rest is a tricky moving target with a newborn.

Emily: 29:46

It is. It is yeah, but the idea of getting a little bit more rest in the hospital is very, very tempting. That would benefit everybody for sure. We didn't really get into this, but I guess. So you have children, and is there anything from your own breastfeeding experience that sort of informs how you would talk about it now, or maybe something you wish you had support around when you were first learning and figuring this out?

Marie: 30:12

I think that idea of like getting support early so with my first I had a midwife and she told me that and I took it to heart she's like breastfeeding can go off the rails fast. She's like you can go from like a sort of a sore nipple to a crack nipple, like you know, fairly quickly. So she's like, just make sure that if you're having troubles you get support quickly. Yep, and I think that was and that's really like it informed my own breastfeeding journey and then I think that really informed how I teach, you know and talk about breastfeeding too, because those supports are out there. You know, lactation consultants are an amazing group of people who can, you know, assess and, you know, diagnose things like a tongue tie that can impact, can help you to, you know, change your milk supply if that's an issue, all those things right. So if we get support early on, I feel like the success rates for breastfeeding are so much higher like the success rates for breastfeeding are so much higher.

Emily: 31:26

Yeah, well, that those first few days and weeks are like the golden opportunity to set yourself up for success, to build your supply, to get the latch. And when you do, then the next, however many weeks or months or years you breastfeed, you know, are going to kind of fall into place. But yeah, that, oh yeah, and there is one other thing she told me she.

Marie: 31:41

She said it's a relationship, so she's like it's not like stagnant. Like any relationship, it changes over time and so she's like it's okay. She's like. First of all, give yourself like a like, don't just think like, oh, I'm gonna give it like a week. She's like you kind of have to give it like four to six weeks to figure it out. And then she's like and then you will have moments where it's like smooth sailing, right. And then you will have other moments like the first, like when they get teeth, yes, and then they bite your nipple and you're like what you're like I thought I had breastfeeding figured out yeah, or they get a little cold and their nose is stuffy.

Emily: 32:21

Now they can't nurse, and now they, and now your supply is building up and you got to like, yeah, you get a curve ball when, whenever things are smooth, there's always another curve ball out there.

Marie: 32:30

Yeah, so like, just like, and knowing that it was normal to have these bumps in the journey and that, like, you can always get support for, like, like, what is happening at that period.

Emily: 32:44

Yeah, yeah, and I think a big one is when women go back to work, and now I mean that changes the relationship dramatically, and so that's another phase. I think we need a lot of support around how to. If it's important to you to continue to have your baby receive breast milk, what does that look like for you, and how do we make it happen? Yeah Well, is there anything we did not cover yet today that you were hoping to talk about? Maybe something that you would like to offer listeners? Oh yeah, a free resource.

Marie: 33:11

Yeah, okay, so for everyone, I always offer everyone a guide to an easier birth and it's going to tell you all about the hormones of labor and give you some practices that you can use to increase those hormones during pregnancy, but then also like during labor. And then, as a special thing, because I talked a lot about the breast massage, I have this beautiful, like 10 minute meditation that teaches you how to do it. So you normally that's just included in my course, but I thought, for anybody who listens to this and who gets the guide to an easier birth, all you need to do is just email me and say, hey, I listened to you on this spilled milk podcast and yeah, and I love the breast massage meditation and I'll just send it to you.

Emily: 33:58

Beautiful. I love that. Thank you so much for doing that. Well, it was lovely speaking with you, Marie.

Marie: 34:06

I'm sure we're going to stay in touch and again, thanks so much for coming on the podcast. Yeah, thank you for having me.

Emily: 34:09

This was awesome, oh good.

Emily : 34:11

Thank you so much for tuning in to this episode of Spilling the Milk. Our podcast is a production of Empowered Bumps and Boobs. Please head to wwwempoweredbumpsandboobscom and subscribe to our newsletter to stay up to date on everything we have going on. We will soon be releasing a community membership program and there are other surprises on the way. If you would like to be a guest on the podcast, please send an email to emily at empoweredbumpsandboobscom. Take care.