Adrian - Insights From an IBCLC and Mom of 5

Emily Stone: I'm generally interviewing moms about like their experience breastfeeding.

ADRIAN FEAR:  Okay.

Emily Stone: I had someone who talked about like her experience with the baby having a tongue tie someone else she had pandemic baby and she ended up exclusively pumping. So there's some you know, interesting stuff there. But to speak to you a lactation consultant.

ADRIAN FEAR:  Yeah.

Emily Stone: Well, you're both a mom and a lactation consultant. So I feel like you are like a wealth of knowledge on this topic and yeah, I would love to just hear maybe how you got intellect, being a lactation consultant…

ADRIAN FEAR: You. Yeah.

Emily Stone: but I'm guessing maybe at first starts with like you being a mom yourself and feeding your babies.

ADRIAN FEAR: So we had all of our kids at home born with the midwife which for us. That just felt like the most natural thing. My kids are very Mainstream kids. We're in public schools. The plan tablets were pretty normal. Except we had home birth. For all the kids,

Emily Stone: Yes, I love that.

ADRIAN FEAR: so, our first was born and he did not latch, Pretty classic just wouldn't last after birth. I mean,…

Emily Stone:  Hmm.

ADRIAN FEAR: we took all the classes. We did all the things we had the perfect birth. There was no interventions and You just didn't and I don't know why I've sat in like analyzed it so many times in my head. Like what in the world happened that like he didn't last? Um, so 48 hours after and IBCLC came to our house and we troubleshooted it and…

Emily Stone: You.

ADRIAN FEAR: then we ended up finger feeding. For 14 days which I have no idea how like looking back, we did it. Um, and I pumped during those 14 days and then one day he just magically started latching.

Emily Stone: One, but I love that because so, if you hadn't had someone supporting you, in that solution, because that's kind of

ADRIAN FEAR: Oh my gosh, it would have never worked. And I,…

Emily Stone:  Right.

ADRIAN FEAR: like, looking back on it. Like, my husband was the key factor and all of it too, because he did all the finger feeding, and then I would turn around and bump.

Emily Stone: Yeah.

ADRIAN FEAR: I I don't know how we did it. I don't know if we could have done it like if that had been like a subsequent child, would we have done it or would drive like stuck in it out. Um, but

Emily Stone: It's a good question. Well, and when you say finger,…

ADRIAN FEAR: Yeah, I have my work bag right here.

Emily Stone: feeding for anybody who doesn't really know what that means, you explain

ADRIAN FEAR: I brought it upstairs with me today.

Emily Stone:  Oh cool. You like a doctor bag, but it's a

ADRIAN FEAR:  I do. Yeah, it's like my mobile. I call my bag of crap. Hang on.

Emily Stone:  yeah.

ADRIAN FEAR: I left part of it, the kid ran off big part of it, so What ends up happening is, Oh, I take this little, where's my camera? I take this little line and…

Emily Stone: Yeah.

ADRIAN FEAR: I attach it to my finger and then the other half of this goes on to a syringe which is like a 20 ml syringe and You put your finger into baby's mouth with my little line attached to the side and Baby pulls milk through the syringe. So, you finger feed for,…

Emily Stone:  Wow.

ADRIAN FEAR: I mean, we did it for 14 days.

Emily Stone:  yeah, and like obviously it still would have to be as frequent so every couple Mm-hmm.

ADRIAN FEAR:  Oh yeah, you're still like that every two hours. I stock 20 ml syringes. So most likely you're doing multiple syringes of pumped, milk or formula to get that baby to latch. So,

Emily Stone:  Yeah. And I'm curious because I've also heard of like, putting some milk on like a little spoon and feeding them. Is that better or worse.

ADRIAN FEAR: I think smooth reading. Oh my gosh. You it would take you forever to spoon feed. I mean food thing is awesome. When we're like hours old and that volume is like that teeny volume…

Emily Stone: Yeah. Yeah, that's the next minute. Yeah.

ADRIAN FEAR: but like I swear I grabbed a bottle and she probably walked off of it like to feed like a volume like a bottle volume like No one's gonna spoon feed.

Emily Stone:  Right. Yeah.

ADRIAN FEAR: I'm gonna give her convinced anyone to spoon feed in six years. So, I do convince a lot of people's finger feed though. so,

Emily Stone:  Right, right? And that's so part of what I hope to do is just provide more options for people. And my whole thing is that like giving your baby breast milk, is a spectrum from 100% exclusive, always from the breast to 100% always formula. And in between those two extremes is like every possible option and actually yours two weeks of finger feeding. That's the first I've heard of that but now we know that's an option for somebody.

ADRIAN FEAR: Yeah. It is um I mean when I come out to client's houses, like I have all these supplies in my bag and stuff, I walk you through it, I show you how to do it. I have you do it on baby and then I provide you with like a handout on it and then I send you a video with it as well. So there's like the whole like you learn in different ways. I'm trying to hit all of them and stuff. oh,

00:05:00

Emily Stone: Yeah. Oh that's awesome. And so so you didn't become lactation consultant until after that. Like you experience that as a come first.

ADRIAN FEAR:  Yeah. so I was planning on going back to school for a master's program and then I left and I kind of changed paths and pursued becoming an IBCLC and it took me about five years to work through those requirements and the boards and ours And then I would, the funny part was I was actually employed by that ibclc who came to my house.

Emily Stone: That's a full circle.

ADRIAN FEAR: He was and it was always, It's always been like this, very emotional like guarded thing. I'm like, you kind of steered my, like schooling, and I changed directions. Because of this relationship, I had with someone, and I was with that group practice for five years,…

Emily Stone:  Yeah.

ADRIAN FEAR: and then I just left and went out on my own. A little over six months ago.

Emily Stone: That's so cool. Well, now I know…

ADRIAN FEAR:  so, Yeah.

Emily Stone: who to refer people to, because I'm so I run a monthly support group for pregnant and…

ADRIAN FEAR:  Yeah.

Emily Stone: moms and Brighton and recently, I was asked like, Do you have any doula recommendations some sort of like filing, Do the recommendations? And now I'm what also like to have, you know, lactation console and recommendations. And I guess one question people often have is, are your services covered by insurance.

ADRIAN FEAR:  So yes, okay, so insurance is kind of this weird thing in Michigan so I've paired with the lactation network who essentially is like a billing company or they're a DME or a direct. Like a medical equipment. Provider is what a DME is. So if a client is interested in booking, I get all the information and make sure I travel to you because I don't go everywhere and then I send you a link to the lactation network and they kind of run your insurance behind the scenes. Most of the time you get six or more visits with me, it does not hit your deductible and it doesn't hit any copays. I do charge a mileage fee. I usually neglect it twice and then you get like a million visits. I can't say I really use all six of the time. And then I come to you, so

Emily Stone: Hmm.

Emily Stone:  Yeah.

ADRIAN FEAR:  Um, I bring my giant bag. I have this huge professional scale, so I can get a weight on baby when I'm there and then I leave you with some pretty detailed notes. I chart it, I send everything over to your pediatrician as well letting him know. We met. Here's what we saw. Here's my concerns or not my concerns. And then clients are welcome to email me as much as they need after the visit as well. So I try not to leave you hang in, I will say I do miss emails at time. So

Emily Stone: Is there like a golden window of opportunity where you really want to be there to intervene? Like if it's gone on too long, it's almost like it's one.

ADRIAN FEAR: Right? Yeah, those older babies are a little tricky just because we're setting our ways. Usually, I see people after you come home from the hospital. So usually I get that text in the hospital,…

Emily Stone:  Yeah.

ADRIAN FEAR: like, Hey, baby's, not lashing. And I'm like, Okay, when are you gonna be home? Let's get you on the schedule. I'll be there the next day. So I mean the sooner, the better, especially if we're dealing with more complex issues and stuff.

Emily Stone:  But that means someone. Like was in contact with you before they even had the baby, like, they knew they were gonna watch your services.

ADRIAN FEAR: Sometimes that happens I would say it's probably 50 or 50 or they just shoot me a message at one o'clock in the morning that they had a baby and we're struggling and they go home tomorrow. And I'm like, Okay cool, let me get you on schedule,…

Emily Stone: Yeah. So they're in their hospital bed on their phone is really what's happening?

ADRIAN FEAR: I'll be there.

Emily Stone: Yeah. Okay.

ADRIAN FEAR: Yeah. And you know, they're having problems. so, I get kind of the whole gamut of it all like sometimes as early,…

Emily Stone: Yeah. Yeah.

ADRIAN FEAR: sometimes it's couple weeks in or a couple days in I don't know, send me a message. I'll get you on the schedule.

Emily Stone: And I you had home births, but I will say in a hospital birth It's sort of a grab bag of what you're experience.

ADRIAN FEAR:  Not. Yes.

Emily Stone: Will be like getting support in the hospital. You might have a nurse who just happens to be very good at it. You might have lactation consultant who's on vacation that day or…

ADRIAN FEAR:  Right.

Emily Stone: you delivered at night and she doesn't come until Monday morning. That's what this

ADRIAN FEAR: yes, I always kind of like, I love when people tell me about because I asked during my like intake and like, So, how is lactation, did they tell you anything? What was their thoughts? And I kind of said there and I'm always like the good stuff is coming. And it is just sometimes the stuff that they tell me, I'm like, where are these people getting this? Like, where,…

Emily Stone: I don't know.

ADRIAN FEAR: We like like one of them recently was like Yeah I was told, I had flat nipples. I mean her nipple was so big. It was so grabable like

Emily Stone: Yeah. Oh,…

ADRIAN FEAR:  but,

Emily Stone: bringing up flat nipples. Okay. So that was my experience with my first one. It was just like a last stitch effort of the hospital. Lactation consultant was like, I don't know. You could like try a nipple shield and…

ADRIAN FEAR:  Yeah.

Emily Stone: I was like, I've never heard of the support. My mom like went to CVS and bought one and actually we did for the first week or two and…

ADRIAN FEAR:  Yeah.

Emily Stone: then eventually he didn't need anymore but there was not much support around that and then I've read some people are like don't ever use it because it doesn't build your supply and like, so I'm curious about your thoughts on that.

00:10:00

ADRIAN FEAR: So I use nipple shields a lot. I have all this their size. I don't know…

Emily Stone:  Yeah, nope.

ADRIAN FEAR: if you knew that they come in various sizes and shapes and textures. And so I have all the sizes in my bag. Technically, we cannot use a nipple shield until your milk is transitioning. So you cannot feed with cholesterol on an apple shield. So most likely in the hospital you should not be handed one.

Emily Stone:  Got it, good.

ADRIAN FEAR: Unless you're there a really long time. It's kind of like trying to suck like honey through those like teeny tiny coffee stirs like It doesn't work.

Emily Stone:  Yeah. That makes sense.

ADRIAN FEAR: Um, so usually I'm the one to hand them out at that point. I do love nipple shields. They work. It is never a forever intervention. It's a stopgap. It's like a pair of crushes and then we're taking it away. so,

Emily Stone: Yeah, yeah, it's the difference between Like getting going that first week and…

ADRIAN FEAR: Yeah. and,…

Emily Stone: not, I was so thankful for it.

ADRIAN FEAR: Yeah, so, the downside with Noble Shield is during Covid, they stopped selling them in most stores. So, now, the only access to Noble Shield is really target or some, like specialty stores, which I kind of think is a good thing that we can't get them at target anymore because people were just buying them willy-nilly and like, Oh we're just gonna try this. When like you shouldn't be using it. And there's definitely rules to using a nipple shield. So I'd rather give it to you and…

Emily Stone: Yeah.

ADRIAN FEAR: size you and make sure you understand how to use it.

Emily Stone: That makes a lot of sense. So, under the supervision of lactation consultant, Well, it was a light bulb moment.

ADRIAN FEAR:  Yeah.

Emily Stone: Recently, I learned that in the hospital. The lactation consultant might not be an IBCLC certified.

ADRIAN FEAR: Yeah. Training.

Emily Stone: You may have some like actually

ADRIAN FEAR: But yeah I think they see just a lot of like routine normal stuff and what they're seeing on day like zero is different than what I'm seeing on day four through kind of the end. So I…

Emily Stone: Right.

ADRIAN FEAR: it's just it's different.

Emily Stone: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

ADRIAN FEAR:  So yeah.

Emily Stone: And then you mentioned sizing, the nipple Shields. And I saw you post one time about sizing pump flanges,…

ADRIAN FEAR:  Oh my gosh. Yeah.

Emily Stone: like blew my mind because I don't know, I think I got a couple options in the box and…

ADRIAN FEAR: Yes. Okay,…

Emily Stone: just like, You know what?

ADRIAN FEAR: so in the box, And let me get them. Allow my baby. So I have all the sizes in my bag except I'm missing one currently. So I left it behind. And I have a bunch of different textured ones. I have a whole collection and these all get sanitized after visits so people can pump on them and play with them. I mean that's the other ones downstairs.

ADRIAN FEAR:  Right hand. I find

ADRIAN FEAR: Like it's like the Mary Poppins bag that just like keeps going in the bottom.

Emily Stone: I'm sure you're gonna pull a lamp out pretty soon.

ADRIAN FEAR: Okay, okay. Yeah. So I have these guys…

Emily Stone: I know. Yeah.

ADRIAN FEAR: which are the pieces that we use for like LV or Willow. These are the silicone dropping inserts and they get Smashed. Into elvir willow and cramp them down. so, I can size you for LV and…

Emily Stone:  Mm-hmm.

ADRIAN FEAR: Willow so,

Emily Stone:  Are those the ones that are like cordless or?

ADRIAN FEAR:  Yes, I'll be in. Willow are the cordless pumps. I used to have an LV in my collection and I got rid of it recently. They?

Emily Stone: And that's kind of new like that. Like it really exploded in popularity in the last like five,…

ADRIAN FEAR: Yes. They've kind of come out over the past like four years.

Emily Stone: ten years.

ADRIAN FEAR: They're the new thing. Um, they have their own like quirks and disadvantages, but they are really cool pump. If that's something you need that portability.

Emily Stone:  Yeah. Yeah.

ADRIAN FEAR: Okay, so this is a 24.

ADRIAN FEAR: This is what comes in your bag. And then I also there is a 28 ounce or…

Emily Stone:  Right.

ADRIAN FEAR: that one is, I mean, I do have a 32, which is like behemoth size. I've used my 32, maybe once all year and then I have like the teeny tiny sizes I mean,…

Emily Stone: Yeah.

ADRIAN FEAR: so this is a 12. I will say I use my 12 a lot. I'm using my tinier size as way more. Matt, really big 24, which comes in that box. Most people are not a 24, and then they have some pumping pals ones…

Emily Stone:  Interesting.

ADRIAN FEAR: which are just a different style, and they have a different texture.

Emily Stone:  You.

ADRIAN FEAR: These ones are kind of cool when we have those breasts that like, hang on, we stand up like that. Hang down a lot and we have that like lower satin nipple. That's almost, I'm like the bottom of the chest. Whereas these guys when we have like breasts that are like up and…

Emily Stone:  Yeah.

ADRIAN FEAR: that nipple is very bull's eye style. Most of the time we're using these like,…

Emily Stone:  Yeah.

ADRIAN FEAR: like, the traditional pump pieces, Oh, yeah, I have all of them. I can pretty much eyeball when I see you pump, when I have you in the visit, I pretty much get like to a couple millimeters and then I have the adapter piece, which just snaps I call him like my Frankenstein set so I can build them all. And then you can pump on them. I'll tell you what size and then I send you the link to Amazon.

00:15:00

Emily Stone:  Yeah. that's,

ADRIAN FEAR: To buy them. It's on my like to do list to like order in a crap ton of pump parts. and then at your house,…

Emily Stone:  Yeah.

ADRIAN FEAR: I'd be like, Okay, well you're a 12 you were using the 24 I will tell you this for…

Emily Stone:  Right.

ADRIAN FEAR: what I paid do. You want it now? I don't.

Emily Stone:  Yeah. That was nice.

ADRIAN FEAR: Yeah, yeah. So most of the time, though, like if you went on Amazon, when I send you the link, it'll be here the next day. So it's not like weeks to get pump parts or anything.

Emily Stone: yeah, well I also have a question because I feel like maybe sometimes We feel like we have to pump or we're supposed to be pumping, like, there's just so much publicity about breast pumps because like, yes, if you're going back to work,…

ADRIAN FEAR: Yeah.

Emily Stone: like pumping my end up being a huge part of your life, but like the first week, the first month, if you're home with the baby like, how important is it to fit a pump to you to using a pump?

ADRIAN FEAR: If you probably don't, I don't know. Like it's really like so dependent on like, are we feeding amazing at the breast are like Is everything going Great?

Emily Stone:  Yeah.

ADRIAN FEAR: Are you one of those people who's like being hammered by engorgement? And we are like exploding at the seams. And that nipple is disappearing…

Emily Stone:  Mm-hmm.

ADRIAN FEAR: because that pressure is so high. So yeah, we might pump a little bit more at that point. I do think it's a good like idea to have a breast pump like it makes me nervous when I go into your house I'm like,…

Emily Stone: You.

ADRIAN FEAR: Oh I don't have one and I'm like, Oh, I'm gonna be sending you to target to purchase it out, right? If we're having problems and they're like 150 bucks,…

Emily Stone:  Yeah.

ADRIAN FEAR: so I don't know. I think it's a good idea to have one. I will definitely.

Emily Stone:  More.

ADRIAN FEAR: During a visit, I go over how to use it because there are ways to use your pump correctly, like any medical device. And if you don't have those right sizes, you will do damage to yourself. so,

Emily Stone:  Yeah, for sure.

ADRIAN FEAR: There's like No, like one size fits all answer. I do think in our area. It is a liability to have these massive epic freezer, stashes, we lose power, like, nobody's business. And when we lose power in the summertime for a week and…

Emily Stone:  that's,

ADRIAN FEAR: you have that freezer with a thousand plus ounces, You better make sure you have a generator, or Where,…

Emily Stone:  Great. Yeah.

ADRIAN FEAR: is that milk going? Or, because once we lose those ice crystals, we cannot refreeze.

Emily Stone: Yeah, that's a really good point. And I also, when you see like the instagram post of the woman like this freezer,…

ADRIAN FEAR:  Oh my gosh. Yes.

Emily Stone: you think that you're like, way behind, you're like I have a days worth of milk stored. That's pretty normal, right? Especially, yeah.

ADRIAN FEAR: It's pretty normal. Yes. So like when I have parents who are returning to work, I'm always like Okay so if we are pumping at work, you're gonna be pumping that full like probably that full days were the milk, we got like two days worth of milk in that freezer. You have a safeguard for like three days potentially if not pumping that's really probably all we need.

Emily Stone: Right, right?

Emily Stone: Assuming that you're able to get enough during the day at work, you're able to take enough breaks to do that.

ADRIAN FEAR: We don't need.

ADRIAN FEAR: Yes. And we've usually like, at that point we've already talked about it. We've talked about like, okay, I understand how to use my pump. I understand how to clean my pump. I know how to set it up quickly. Like I have a plan where I'm pumping I might pump. Well I'm driving in the car like get it all set up. Turn it on pump while I'm driving pump on the drive home. Like, we have plant,…

Emily Stone: Yep.

ADRIAN FEAR: like we've talked about this so much. So, like, yeah. You don't need these bells announce. Freezer stashes. so, The power out it I mean like it's a real thing and…

Emily Stone:  Right. Right, like you said the power outage this horse?

ADRIAN FEAR: don't think we talk about enough in our areas like yeah probably two or three times a year we're gonna probably lose power.

Emily Stone:  Yes. We just did we just

ADRIAN FEAR: And where are you going? We just did. Thank goodness. It was in the wintertime. So you probably, you probably could have lived through by just putting it outside. Yes.

Emily Stone:  Put it in this. Oh, like go put your book in the stone.

ADRIAN FEAR: But no one wants to have to deal with that. I do try like, in my practice, I can't be like the dealer of Mill. But I do try and…

Emily Stone:  Mmm.

ADRIAN FEAR: have like, kind of like a running idea in my head of who is on donor milk and who isn't and who am I seeing currently, who has these epic freezer sashes? And I'll kind of usually put like the bug in their ear. Like, Hey, do you want to get rid of some of it? Because I do have a family over…

Emily Stone:  Yeah.

ADRIAN FEAR: Who's looking? I can't be involved. But I can at least pass you phone numbers.

Emily Stone: Yeah. That's cool.

Emily Stone: That's really cool.

ADRIAN FEAR: As long as we're all consenting to it and…

ADRIAN FEAR: then you guys hash out the details.

Emily Stone:  Right, that's another thing is donor milk. I don't feel like that gets talked about a ton but that's falls along the continuum continuum of how your baby gets breast milk.

ADRIAN FEAR: Yeah, I talked to about donor milk a lot, but I also feel like I talk about formula a lot because our goal is always like I have to feed. We have to feed the child, like child has to be fat. So I usually like, I mean, it's usually talked about like that, like, Okay, we don't have breast milk, Okay? Do you want to use donuts? Nope, not open to it, okay. So now we're moving to formula like cool too,…

Emily Stone: Got it.

00:20:00

ADRIAN FEAR: I don't really care. We just we have to feed the child.

Emily Stone:  Mm-hmm. Yeah for sure. What about like the haka or like a manual pump and the haka's new? Like I feel like it just came on the market like after I had last baby.

ADRIAN FEAR: Yes. Yeah, I do like the haka. It's a great resource. I definitely have some families who respond really great to the haka, like, just for, like, stimulating milk production. I will say Haka is one of those like double edged swords. We're like, it will take you to that oversupply very quickly.

Emily Stone: Oh, good to know.

ADRIAN FEAR: so if you're one of those people who's like, flooding that sucker out every time, Probably get a phone call from you about at eight weeks or…

Emily Stone:  Hmm.

ADRIAN FEAR: something saying like, Oh yeah, my baby's kind of struggling and I'm like, Well how many times did Harry pump it? And I'm like, Oh I use the hack at every feed and get four ounces. I'm like, wow. So let's do some math. We have created an oversupply and…

Emily Stone:  Yeah.

ADRIAN FEAR: now we need to work out to go down to not have that. So, It is a balance.

Emily Stone:  Yeah, such a balance.

ADRIAN FEAR: It is a really nice tool though, especially like, when we're dealing with that engorgement phase. You can pop it on one side feet on the other. but just don't use it continuously unless you have low supply and…

Emily Stone:  Yeah.

ADRIAN FEAR: then I need you to use it to generate that supply

Emily Stone: Well, and I also like with the last baby was the only time I saw milk catchers and I used those to like varying degrees of success because you're tired and not paying attention. And then you like lean back and all the sudden all the milk you just caught is like all over you and…

ADRIAN FEAR: that's, Yes.

Emily Stone: you're like, no. Cool. So, but I thought that because you're not stimulating anything extra. You're catching that,…

ADRIAN FEAR: You're catching.

Emily Stone: you know, Christmas precious milk.

ADRIAN FEAR: Yes, I do like those, I really like the haka ladybugs recently, too, because you can get a little section but you can't get crazy suction like those traditional Hakas.

Emily Stone:  Yeah.

ADRIAN FEAR: I like the ladybugs because it's a little more like It flows on the chest a little bit bar, that hoga is just kind of big and bulky. And stuff. So I don't know. Breastfeeding is all I mean it's a marketing ploy. So like what do you want to spend your money on that you need versus you don't need

Emily Stone: Yeah, for me, it was nipple cream like that was important.

ADRIAN FEAR:  Yeah.

Emily Stone: And I guess that's my question is. So, I had mastitis a couple times with two,…

ADRIAN FEAR:  Yeah.

Emily Stone: my babies and I'm still trying to solve for like, how I could have prevented it better. I guess, what are your tips for that?

ADRIAN FEAR: I made my status is I mean it's one of those infections as an infection in the breast, our protocols over the blast year have definitely changed and how we treat an assessment status. Um, some people can definitely get away with like, homeopathic treatments and…

Emily Stone: Yeah.

ADRIAN FEAR: remedies which if that's your comfort level. That's fine. It is not mine in private practice, but if you're comfortable, trying it, go for it. But I make no promises about what's gonna happen with it. Um, you're typically most prone to it in the first two weeks postpartum because your multiply so high and then it kind of like settles down. Um, when you overdo it, you get mastitis as your body saying,…

Emily Stone:  You.

ADRIAN FEAR: like, Sit down. I need to rest,…

Emily Stone:  Yeah. Yep.

ADRIAN FEAR: I need to recover. Um, if we have open wounds on our nipples, that bacteria crawls up in there,…

Emily Stone:  Yeah.

Emily Stone:  Yeah.

ADRIAN FEAR: And then…

ADRIAN FEAR: if I catch you having that open wound on that nipple and then now we're slapping nipple cream on top of it. We now have that bacteria being tracked into that wound and…

Emily Stone:  Okay.

ADRIAN FEAR: that nipple cream is so sticky and tacky. It's providing that surface for that bacteria to come up.

Emily Stone:  Yeah.

Emily Stone:  Okay, that makes sense.

ADRIAN FEAR: so, If I saw you and…

ADRIAN FEAR: that was going on to probably say Hey we're gonna knock off the nipple cream. I'm gonna probably have you wash your nipples,…

Emily Stone:  Yeah.

ADRIAN FEAR: which is the concept because We haven't opened wound. And if it was like on my finger, I'd be obsessively telling my five-year-old, like wash your finger, wash your finger, use the soap,…

Emily Stone: Right. Yeah,…

ADRIAN FEAR: but we don't do that to our nipples.

Emily Stone: well, it's also so painful like taking a shower when you're nipples are so too.

ADRIAN FEAR:  Right. Yes.

Emily Stone: Like I remember wearing a sports bra and it still hurt through the sports bra. So the idea of washing it it's

ADRIAN FEAR: What we? It's like a friction burn. I mean it's chafing basically, sometimes, um, I probably have you switched to like silver rats. Have you seen those? No, I have one right here. Mine is really dirty cuz it lives in a box and so this is silver rats.

Emily Stone: oh,

ADRIAN FEAR: You can find them on Amazon and then this is it. It is basically a silver pasty and it goes in your shirt. Mine was shiny at one time, but it's medical grade.

Emily Stone:  Yeah.

ADRIAN FEAR: 925 silver it. So it heals sues, it's antibacterial antifungal. It's really lightweight. And you just drop it in your shirt.

Emily Stone:  Mmm. Where was that? Five and eight and eleven years ago?

ADRIAN FEAR: I like these came out, like, during Covid. I feel like they gained a lot of popularity. Um, they're really cool. You can get them on Amazon. Um, like 60 bucks.

Emily Stone: Mm-hmm.

ADRIAN FEAR: They're kind of expensive. They do have some knockoffs on Amazon so I would say Do what you're comfortable with but they work really well and much rather. Have you used these guys then Tacky nipple cream.

00:25:00

Emily Stone:  Yeah, well, it's just like Yeah. You need some sort of like safety bubble and it looks like maybe that is writing it.

ADRIAN FEAR: Yes, yes. So I think that's why I like this over at so much because they provide that like a barrier where that shirt isn't sticking to that wound.

Emily Stone: Yep.

ADRIAN FEAR: And then your nipples not being compressed and…

Emily Stone:  Yep. That's the worst part. Yeah.

ADRIAN FEAR: then you're not like, ripping out that That wound. So I do like those medela also makes these little like Tupperware dummy, guys. They're called medela soft shells.

Emily Stone:  Okay. Yeah.

ADRIAN FEAR: And those guys are nice too, because they, like, collect a little bit of milk in the bottom and…

Emily Stone:  You.

ADRIAN FEAR: they have these huge holes. So, like the nipple can breathe. It's that same kind of idea though.

Emily Stone:  Know. That's

ADRIAN FEAR: The soft shells work. Nice. If you're using that all-purpose nipple, ointment with the steroid…

Emily Stone:  Yes.

ADRIAN FEAR: but not everyone loves that. So the silver rats would be kind of the thing to use.

Emily Stone:  Interesting. At least there's just yes any sort of guidance. I think that might be my new go-to baby. Shower gift will be those solar ads.

ADRIAN FEAR:  Yes. The silver rats. Yes, they're super cool. Um, I really like them, just not everyone wants to spend the money on them and stuff, but

Emily Stone: Mm-hmm. But that's the thing well. So I'm also part of Part of what I'm doing is I want to bring awareness to the idea that for your baby registry, you can ask people to provide funds to hire a doula or a lactation consultant or like the services, you're going to need instead of all the stuff and…

ADRIAN FEAR: Yes. This stop.

Emily Stone: so, but like keeping your nipples safe and comfortable is like a really important part.

ADRIAN FEAR: Yeah. Yeah. I mean like I would definitely like the silver rats and it's an easy thing. They're on Amazon, if you had like an Amazon registry, Those are great. I do love those like ice pack, like those brush shaped ice packs,…

Emily Stone: Yes, I have no fear.

ADRIAN FEAR: and those like those heating massage devices to La Vie, makes one and then Freda makes one. And I've seen a lot of great things with those but if you don't have one your electric toothbrush also vibrates and…

Emily Stone:  Mm-hmm.

ADRIAN FEAR: like roll that through your breasts. It probably does the same thing. But it's up to you and…

Emily Stone:  Yep.

ADRIAN FEAR: how much you want to spend.

Emily Stone: Yeah, but just the big idea that you really have to take care of like your breasts and…

ADRIAN FEAR:  Yeah.

Emily Stone: your nipples, and you kind of have stay on top of it or things. Get really bad really quickly.

ADRIAN FEAR: They do. I mean, I see a lot of people who like we do fine. And sometimes I just show up, and it's like this happy-go-lucky. Okay. I'll see you a couple times. Let me weigh your baby. Let me sit here and talk to you for a half hour and then I'm out. I love those.

Emily Stone:  That's great. Sure.

ADRIAN FEAR: After like weeks of like terrible visits where I have to work really hard, but I mean stuff like that is easy.

Emily Stone:  Yeah.

Emily Stone: I think the most common challenge I hear just anecdotally from people is low supply. I have a low supply. I'm not making enough milk. We have to use formula and I am not a lactation consultant so I never want to jump in with advice especially because I don't know all the details. But I want to make sure that they know When you are feeding formula, if you are not stimulating, milk production at the time,…

ADRIAN FEAR: Yeah, you have to round.

Emily Stone: you're just gonna keep getting less support.

Emily Stone: Like the solution is gonna exacerbate the problem and I don't want to be preachy but I just want to make sure they know that and I don't know.

ADRIAN FEAR: Yeah. Yeah.

ADRIAN FEAR: Yeah. No,…

Emily Stone: Am I on the right track that that happens.

ADRIAN FEAR: you are. Yeah. So if that full bottle of formula isn't used or like we're topping baby off, you should be turning around and probably pumping at that point. I think sometimes it's just culturally we struggle with,…

Emily Stone: Okay.

ADRIAN FEAR: like I fed the baby and now the baby we fed, but now the baby needs you to switch gears and parent and…

Emily Stone:  Hmm.

ADRIAN FEAR: learning the difference between I'm hungry. I fed you. And now, I need you to help me fall asleep. And I need you to help. Hold me and soothe me and parent me outside of your stomach that I don't understand yet. And I am fed and I'm comfortable. But I need you to hold me and walk me around and snuggle and I think sometimes making that shift between those two focuses. It's hard for people to do especially into that evening hour…

Emily Stone: Mm-hmm.

ADRIAN FEAR: where we are tired. We are exhausted. I don't want to hold you anymore, unfortunately, because I am tired and…

Emily Stone: yeah, and…

ADRIAN FEAR: I have done this all day and I just want to sit down.

Emily Stone: a bottle would help with With soothing is what you're saying.

ADRIAN FEAR: And a bottle would probably feel easier, but you don't like that's…

Emily Stone:  Mm-hmm.

ADRIAN FEAR: where like, okay. Then let's bring you back to the breast. Let me feed you a little bit more and then I'm gonna pass you after that. Other loving partner who can carry you and walk around. So I can sit down and just kind of rest for a couple minutes.

Emily Stone: Yeah, yeah. And that's probably another big idea is that we call it like breastfeeding, but in my experience it's feeding it's like, calming down for sleep. It's I just got a shot and…

ADRIAN FEAR: Yeah.

Emily Stone: I need comfort and like, you know, in relief, it's I'm scared. It's, I just want to be close to you, it's all of those things. So like a bottle is a bottle but like the rest is all of the things. And so I think am I wrong that? The baby would just love to be at your breast, like, 24 hours a day.

00:30:00

ADRIAN FEAR:  Yeah, I mean that's pretty normal too. Yeah. I think sometimes that low supply though is just we struggle with. Do we really have lots of like, is it a perceived low supply or are we doing really have low supply?

Emily Stone: Yeah, right. Right.

ADRIAN FEAR: During a visit, I can do a weighted feed so I would have used like basically not feed the baby for about two hours before I got there. I'd have you feed feed when I'm there, and then we get a pre feed weight and post feed weight. And if you a pretty clear idea with a lot of like data history in between that like, yeah, you really do have low supply. Or you're doing fine. And I think you just need probably to hold that baby a little bit more.

Emily Stone:  Monitoring you?

ADRIAN FEAR: And the baby is just kind of telling you like, No, I'm not hungry, I just want you to parent me.

Emily Stone: Okay, that's it yeah that's a new way for me to to think about it and I do like my second son, he got a rough start because he had to have a surgery like the first day of life and so he was like really low weight percentile and I'm so thankful that my pediatrician did not freak out. He was gaining weight slower than maybe we would like…

ADRIAN FEAR:  Yeah.

Emily Stone: but she knew I was how often I was nursing him. She trusted me, I trusted myself and eventually we got him where he needed to be. She never once said I think you need to supplement and…

ADRIAN FEAR: Yeah.

Emily Stone: I give her a lot of credit and I give myself credit like we just sort of trusted

ADRIAN FEAR:  Yeah. I think there's definitely pediatricians in the area who are way more relaxed than others and others who are not supportive of breastfeeding. I call them the sabotagers in the area.

Emily Stone: Yeah.

ADRIAN FEAR:  And they're bad news for breastfeeding like frankly they give parable advice. um, and I guess just kind of feeling it out. And if you end with one of those people, it's not the end of the world. If you have to switch care providers, like not everyone.

Emily Stone:  But how do you know how is the new mom do? You know, it's bad advice. That's the only advice you've been given from a medical professional, who's looking out for your baby.

ADRIAN FEAR: I know, and then I come in and I'm like, Oh, your pediatrician is terrible.

Emily Stone:  Okay.

ADRIAN FEAR: Um, I don't know, I mean that's terrible as it is. I sometimes sounded back to Facebook and I'm like, I program on Facebook, see what you can find because it all layers on Facebook recently. And they'll get a bad rap.

Emily Stone:  It really does. I'm part of all groups.

ADRIAN FEAR: But if you don't agree with their advice, you can always shop out someone else. And I usually have a pretty nice list of peds in the area…

Emily Stone:  Mm-hmm.

ADRIAN FEAR: who are supportive. And why? Like,

Emily Stone:  That's true. That's another reason that you're good resources that you could provide that kind of information for somebody to

ADRIAN FEAR: Yeah. I know who are the better ones in the area or like I can be like Yeah we're doing okay. Like this isn't time to freak out yet like let's give it a couple more days.

Emily Stone: Right.

ADRIAN FEAR: Let's give another week. We'll reassess, we'll reevaluate me back by again. And see…

Emily Stone: Yeah. Because as a new mom,…

ADRIAN FEAR: what happens.

Emily Stone: you are prone to anxiety. You are prone.

ADRIAN FEAR:  Yeah.

Emily Stone: You are already worried that everything that could possibly go wrong with your baby is gonna happen. So for the doctor to have the same attitude is not helpful.

ADRIAN FEAR: Now and I kind of joke. I'm like I'm the person I'm like I love a good freak out like I love to freak out and panic like that is my favorite high Everett next, a couple other things and I always like this is not time to panic. I will tell you when it is full blown time to panic. We are not in panic mode yet. You know.

Emily Stone: yeah, you're like the flight attendant, like if you're freaking out on the plane,…

Emily Stone: then I know to freak out but until then

ADRIAN FEAR: Yes. Yeah,…

ADRIAN FEAR: we're probably good. So I don't see bad things that often. So I mean it's usually just a couple quick fixes and we're back on the road like we're back feeding. oh,

Emily Stone: That's great. That's really encouraging. And so you are a little bit famous, right? Because you are featured in Runner's world. Do you want to tell us a little bit about…

ADRIAN FEAR:  Yes.

Emily Stone: how you, you know, about that story and about how you relationship to run?

ADRIAN FEAR: Well yeah, so runners world put a call out when we were pregnant with her fifth child, and it was kind of right before the world shut down with covid. Which was interesting because I didn't know like that was gonna happen. Um, and they were looking for an open casting for people who ran and had a running streak. And I think at that point, my run street was like three years old. Yeah, it was about to be three. We are pregnant which I had a really hard time without pregnancy because I felt like I had just gotten back to my groove as a pretty competitive runner. I was coming back hard, I had big ambitions and goals and then we got pregnant. And I was just like I was crushed. that I was pregnant because I didn't want to be pregnant like we were done having kids and I think it was really hard at the time for me to accept like,

ADRIAN FEAR: Yes, we had consensual sex with each other. Yes, we, we did this. We caused this to happen, and this was what happened. And I was we were excited for another child, but I was pissed. Like I was upset like my world was gonna change and I knew it was gonna be another come back, and I didn't want to do it anymore. So this call comes out from Runner's world.

00:35:00

Emily Stone: Yeah.

ADRIAN FEAR: Looking for people with a running streak and I was like, I'm gonna apply, I have a long standing running streak and…

Emily Stone:  Yeah. Yes. You

ADRIAN FEAR: I'm pregnant. And they were looking for people who are like ethnically diverse and my husband was like, you were a white blonde girl. You are not ethnically diverse, I was like, but I'm pregnant and I'm running. And my run street is not dying today or tomorrow or the day we give birth was like,…

Emily Stone: He?

ADRIAN FEAR: okay. so I applied and I was accepted and I went through this really lengthy interview and then they sent a photographer out to photograph me and the kids For this piece that was in Runner's world it was like a two-page spread. It was a really cool experience and then there was a follow-up piece about, Did you continue to run streak which I did? So, We gave birth to kid number five.

Emily Stone: Yeah.

ADRIAN FEAR: And then about 12 hours after I got up and ran another mile. And then we got a lot of s*** for…

Emily Stone:  Yeah.

ADRIAN FEAR: um, It wasn't Haphazardous. It was very calculated out what we did. Our midwife was definitely on board with it. My husband was definitely on board with it. We actually my treadmill died like the week before we gave birth. So, the new treadmill was delivered into the front room which we have never had like a treadmill front room, like a treadmill, like, on the first floor house, it was kind of joke. Um, but it actually worked out really well because I could hop on the treadmill. Very easily run baby.

Emily Stone: Great.

ADRIAN FEAR: Kind of sat like in the little like bouncy seat right next to me. And I ran, and we did that for the first two weeks, or we did that for the first week. And then I think they took me back to three miles. At a week. Postpartum. And then I ran a 50 miler at six months and…

Emily Stone: Wow.

ADRIAN FEAR: then I've been back to competitive running. Sentence. So I had to pump during that 50 miler,…

Emily Stone:  Yeah.

ADRIAN FEAR: which there's photographs on the Internet someplace of me pumping with LV. And like one of my pacing crews walking with me and like we were power walking and I have like LV. I have the front zip sports bra but like I can see LV in there. He I don't get any idea…

Emily Stone:  Sure.

ADRIAN FEAR: what he was photographing, but like I'm holding that bra up and we're like how we're walking through the woods…

Emily Stone:  Oh my gosh.

ADRIAN FEAR: because I refuse to, like, Let pumping stop me from like race period.

Emily Stone: yeah, well, I just love all of it because it's like Like shattering our limiting beliefs about what's possible during pregnancy.

ADRIAN FEAR:  You know.

Emily Stone: You know, after birth like for someone who has five children, just whatever you thought was true, it's no longer true because you did something else. What else can we do?

ADRIAN FEAR:  I did.

Emily Stone: Yeah, well, and that's you. So you are in the minority. I would say in our country, most women, do not, I don't even know that we know this is an option or like a recommended thing, maybe just because you're an athlete, you knew.

Emily Stone: Yeah, right.

Emily Stone:  Yeah.

Emily Stone:  Yeah, so I mean we're getting other people permission that there is a solution. If you're not happy with peeing, when you run or peeing, when you jump or whatever it might be,

Emily Stone:  Hmm.

Emily Stone:  Yeah.

Emily Stone: Yeah, right.

Emily Stone:  Yeah, well, I think we should say for most people who do not have an that act of a lifestyle and a special, when you already have kids and you had a baby, you have to force yourself to slow down, like because if you try to just do, like your normal routine of taking care of everybody, that probably will be too much for you.

00:40:00

Emily Stone: Yeah.

Emily Stone:  Most people aren't, nope. You're very okay.

ADRIAN FEAR: Ready to go. With a plan and how they're not gonna let that pumping session deter that, like race finish time. So, but that was just what I was before the pregnant before before the pregnancies and then This time, I just was determined. I was, it was continuing on

Emily Stone: Yeah well that's a big thing. It's like you feel like your identity is compromised when you have a baby.

ADRIAN FEAR: is where I struggled that last time was just like I was under the impression we were done with kids and then I was I was planning on running like competitive races before that. Pregnancy happened. And I think it just hurt.

Emily Stone:  Mm-hmm.

ADRIAN FEAR: Because yeah, I was, I was ready to go back. Like I was ready to make my return to running and…

Emily Stone:  Yeah.

ADRIAN FEAR: Competitive running and now it wasn't gonna happen. So,

Emily Stone: Yeah. Yeah, that's really cool. Really cool story really inspiring. You're very interesting person. I'm glad I, I think I just saw you on Instagram somehow and then I realized. Yeah, your local here. So I can refer people to you which is gonna be really good.

ADRIAN FEAR: Yeah yeah I'm here right on the Huron River which is fun.

Emily Stone:  Yes, yes. Hopefully it'll be warm soon and I can hang out more on rivers and lakes and

ADRIAN FEAR:  Yes, I know. I'm kind of hoping spring is finally here.

Emily Stone:  Well, I did anyone tell you it's snowing on Friday, but

ADRIAN FEAR:  I know, I'm so pissed. I know and I have to run 22 miles this weekend and I'm like, Oh, here comes the snow again.

Emily Stone:  I know it's March, is there anything we didn't talk about that? You were hoping we would or you think we should

ADRIAN FEAR:  now, I think you covered a pretty good, you got a lot of it, so Yeah.

Emily Stone:  Yeah, well I'm questioning about this stuff. I mean, you live it, You see women all the time but the average person still does not get adequate education support and you know China? Yeah.

ADRIAN FEAR: Now, I know and I'm really trying to step up the educational piece of what I do. It's just It's really hard to do, all that kind of stuff when I'm working, multiple cases the day.

Emily Stone: Pressure. Okay,…

ADRIAN FEAR: And then I have to come home and chart it. So I'm trying

Emily Stone: well and that's why I'm creating an online course. So the idea is that when you take it when they're pregnant,…

ADRIAN FEAR:  Yes.

Emily Stone: they have a lot of baseline information to start from and then they could always refer back to it when they need help. Like in the moment.

ADRIAN FEAR:  Yeah, I mean that's always like my goal stuff like that. I just don't The past two weeks I've been, I feel like I've been barely coming up for air expensive busy. So like yesterday I had today yesterday in the past two days I've had off and I'm like, Oh my gosh, this is amazing. I can sit on the couch and do nothing.

Emily Stone: That's awesome. I just started. Binging, handmaid's, tale. Like, I don't actually have the time, but somehow, I find time to watch like two episodes.

ADRIAN FEAR:  Oh yeah, yeah. So

Emily Stone: I'm gonna stop the recording. Um, do I know how to stop the recording? This is my first time recording in Google Meet. I usually do zoom. Stop recording. Okay, cool. Yeah and so no. I'd love to see in touch because like I'm doing the education piece.

ADRIAN FEAR:  yeah.

Emily Stone: I'm also working on an interactive chat bot where you would like ask your question and it would give you like resources back or like some guidance. And honestly,…

ADRIAN FEAR:  Yeah.

Emily Stone: at the end it might say, based on everything, it might be time to reach out to a lactation consultant.

ADRIAN FEAR: Yeah.

Emily Stone: It's like, you know, there's some things you can solve on your own and sometimes you really do need support. So I'll be in touch like if I get to the point where I need someone to for people,…

ADRIAN FEAR:  Yeah.

Emily Stone: to be able to reach out to you, maybe, you know, you could be part of

ADRIAN FEAR: Let me know, I'm around. I mean, most of the time I can get people scheduled within about 24 hours If I have like new super, super new babies, I just end up shifting my like follow-ups. I'm like I got a boot you a day or two out and…

Emily Stone: Got it.

ADRIAN FEAR: they usually know that when they set up follow-ups when we babies,…

Emily Stone:  Okay.

ADRIAN FEAR: I'm always like, if someone else comes in, you have to get shifted so,

Emily Stone:  Yeah. Yeah you're kind of like a doula in that way like depending on when the baby actually gets born is going to impact when you go see them.

ADRIAN FEAR:  Yeah, and I do work on the weekends and stuff too. So hang on one second.

ADRIAN FEAR: No. Okay, you're good clients, text me which I love, but I'm like, phasing out of allowing them to text me and I'm making them all email.

Emily Stone: Yeah. That would be.

ADRIAN FEAR: like it was the clients that start March first, as a new family, they all have to use the email platform so I'm trying to like phase out of the texting because it's just It's out of control.

00:45:00

Emily Stone:  Well, you're never off you would never be off. Yeah.

ADRIAN FEAR: I'm never off. Yeah so what I end up having to do is put my phone on do not disturb a basically 24/7…

Emily Stone:  Right.

ADRIAN FEAR: but then they're still like inundated in my inbox for texting and…

Emily Stone:  Yep.

ADRIAN FEAR: it's just this like

Emily Stone:  Yeah, I can imagine. Do you ever do zoom consults like

ADRIAN FEAR: I do, I have to stay HIPAA compliance. So I have to use a site called Doxie but I just use I move them to doxy.

Emily Stone:  Yeah.

ADRIAN FEAR: It's super easy. I teach at Doxie. It's not bad. I just don't love doing it so I don't do it a ton. Um, if the world shuts down again or something like covid, then yeah, I'll have to go back to it, but

Emily Stone: Yeah I remember facetiming my breasts to my midwife and…

ADRIAN FEAR:  Yes.

Emily Stone: I was like Is this mastitis? Can you call an antibiotic? I'm not coming to hospital and…

ADRIAN FEAR:  Yeah.

Emily Stone: I was like This does not seem like a secure data connection, I don't care.

ADRIAN FEAR: I know, that's pretty much what it is. So yeah, so I use doxy it works or…

Emily Stone:  Mm-hmm.

ADRIAN FEAR: you can just email me photos and stuff to you which works a little bit easier.

Emily Stone:  Yeah, you better. You got a lot of p*** in your inbox, there's like a lot of breasts coming in.

ADRIAN FEAR: There's a lot and I think that was why I finally this week I was like anyone marched first, you are moving to the email platform so there's like separation between like myself and…

Emily Stone: Yes.

ADRIAN FEAR: like client. Stuff. So,…

Emily Stone:  Yeah, it makes a lot of sense.

ADRIAN FEAR: Yeah, I'm around. Let me know if you have questions or whatnot. Well,…

Emily Stone: Yeah, I really appreciate it.

ADRIAN FEAR: no problem.

Emily Stone: All right. Take care Adrian.

ADRIAN FEAR: Thanks the opportunity. Yeah, bye.

Meeting ended after 00:46:37 👋